Standing firm in power and pride: celebrating Black History Month

 Matthew Taylor

Hello and welcome to the latest edition of Health on the Line, produced by Health Comms Plus on behalf of the NHS Confederation. Before we get into the content for this episode, you may have seen that the task force for diversity in NHS Communications recently published a report into the lack of diversity in NHS communications

The taskforce is calling on all senior leaders in the NHS to sign a diversity charter, committing to inclusive recruitment development and leadership practices. We'll soon be publishing a list of signatories without pledge. So if you'd like to have your name included, please go to our website for further information.

I want to talk about an area that we've been focusing on at the Confed for, for some time, and which reached what a, a particularly important milestone last week with a major event, and I'm joined to discuss that by Eloise Crockett. So, Eloise, welcome to Health on the Line. 

Eloise Crockett

Thank you very much for having me, Matthew.

Now, you've never been on before and actually, you're of course a fascinating person, but you're kind of interesting in terms of not, maybe people will be surprised at how it is you are working in the conference. So, just, tell us who you are and, and how you've ended up working with us.

Eloise Crockett

Yeah, very happy to and aware I haven't really had their kind of traditional route into the Confed. So I'm a civil servant. I am on secondment from the joint Department for Work and Pensions, Department of Health and Social Care, Work and Health Directorate, which is the area responsible in government for a lot of the joined-up employment and health interventions.

And I've been at the Confed around a year and a half. And this secondment really came about because, I mean, reducing economic inactivity is, is such a massive fiscal challenge for the UK and there's been a growing recognition that the NHS has a massive part to play in reducing economic inactivity, and we thought that actually having me at the confab was a great way to help bridge the gap between national government and local systems in reducing economic inactivity.

Matthew Taylor 

Yeah, and we've been delighted to work with you and as I say, all the work you've been putting in with the department with NHSE, with our leaders and partners, has started to come to fruition this week, we are part of the national programme to deliver work around how the NHS can help with this huge challenge of worklessness.

So, tell me about the event that that took place a few days ago. I think nearly 250 people came to it. 

Eloise Crockett

Yeah, it was a fantastic launch and it's something we've been trying to do for quite a while, so it's really exciting to finally get it going. So we launched the NHS Work and Health Network, which is a network that the Confed is running in partnership with NHS England, DWP, and DHSC and it is all about co-designing what the NHS's role in reducing economic connectivity is. And actually it feels very collaborative in the fact that we've got so many different parts of government on board and it's very much about offering systems of space to come along and share some of the really innovative work they're doing in their systems to join up employment, health and skills support.

Matthew Taylor 

Yeah, and I was delighted to, to be there and to welcome people along with Adam Menman, who leads on this work in the department. And you know, we have people from ICSs, from trusts, from local government, from the voluntary sector, from academia. Eloise, we could talk about this for hours, but this is just a short conversation, but I found the presentations that we heard at the event fascinating.

Give us a sense of the kind of major strands of work that people are undertaking in this space of health contribution to reducing worklessness. 

Eloise Crockett

It's great question. I think we really reflected on during the session the fact that actually it can look quite different depending on what part of the system you're in, and depending on where you sit within your system. I think, well, there's a massive role for the NHS as an employer in its own right, the fact that, you know, as the biggest employer in the country, the NHS can have a massive knock-on effect on the economy and on people's lives through better NHS employment. I think that is a massive strand that that comes out time and time again. 

There is also a much wider role, and this is probably the, the part that is less kind of explored and that is around the NHS's role as a strategic commissioner in this space.

As a system partner, we know that traditionally, a lot of this work is done by local government and actually, you know, how does the NHS work with local government to deliver on the Get Britain Working plans that every local area will not have to deliver? How does the NHS work with employers to understand the needs of their local labour market to ensure that we put in much better upstream prevention to support people whilst they're in work.

So I think it can look so different to so many people. And what was great, going back to the attendee list that attended on Monday, was that actually we had such a mix of different roles there. So it just shows the amount of kind of enthusiasm and energy around this agenda. 

Matthew Taylor

And just finally, people listening to this might think, well, I, I'd really like to be involved in that, my organisation would like to be involved in that. So if you wanna know more about the work that we're doing on, on work and, and where future events are, are gonna be, how would somebody do that? 

Eloise Crockett

Well, we're very keen to have as many people involved as possible. We have a page on our website where you can sign up. And again, I just wanted to reinforce that point that you don't have to be working in the ICB or even the NHS to be involved if you are interested in the NHS’s role in reducing economic inactivity. Perhaps you are a local government partner, perhaps you’re a VSC organisation. Please do sign up because we really want to make sure that we are helping to join up the system on this very important issue.

Matthew Taylor 

Eloise, thanks so much for joining us on Health on the Line.

Eloise Crockett

Thanks for having me. 

Matthew Taylor 

Now the NHS and Black History Month have been working together for years, since the first UK Black History Month event in 1987. With trusts, primary care settings and other health teams marking the celebration in a variety of different ways, all of which are about underlining the incredible contribution BME staff make to our National Health Service.

We've seen positive changes during that period. But we all know there's still much to do. We recently responded to reports from NHS organisations and members highlighting a troubling increase in verbal abuse, harassment and vandalism aimed at staff from black and minority ethnic backgrounds. This is underlying the urgent need to reaffirm our collective commitment to equity, dignity and safety for all.

In particular, I was shocked, saddened to hear that staff at Guy’s and St. Thomas’ as a hospital I've used a lot when I lived in South London, found themselves in the midst of protests that took place in central London a couple of weeks ago. Those protests led to safety barriers being erected around the hospital, and those barriers being breached by protesters, with a huge impact on staff.

It's chilling, isn't it? That London, one of the most wonderfully diverse cities in the world, people were made to feel unsafe by the words and actions of others. So it's against this kind of mixed backdrop that today, the annual Black History Month celebrations begin, and we do want to emphasise the word ‘celebration’, even whilst recognising the difficult backdrop.

And I'm delighted, well, I'm privileged, to be talking today to two guests. Firstly, Professor Dame Robina Shah. Professor Shah is a leading expert in medical education and psychosocial medicine at the University of Manchester Medical School, and a chartered consultant psychologist. She's received widespread and significant recognition for her work in patient safety, health equity, clinical communication skills, and improving experiences for patients and caregivers.

And as well as that, she's done work outside of health for the Football Association, including the FA Women's Football Board, the FA Disability Football Committee, the FA Benevolent Fund, and the FA Council. 

And alongside Professor Shah is the Confed’s own. Joan Saddler, director of partnerships and equality here at NHS Confederation. Joan was formally national director of patient and public affairs based within the patient and public engagement and experience division of the Department of Health and Social Care. And currently amongst many other roles is also co-chair of the National NHS Equality and Diversity Council.

So I'm delighted that you've both joined me this morning to launch this year's Black History Month. Welcome Robina and Joan to Health on the Line. 

Robina and Joan: Thank you. Thank you. 

Matthew Taylor 

Robina, if you don't mind me calling you that by. Firstly can I ask you to reflect on this year's Black History Month theme through the lens of, well, your extensive leadership experience and your, view of the NHS, both as a non-executive director and a clinician.

There's this phrase, ‘standing firm in power and pride’. What, do those words mean to you, to those of us working towards a truly anti-racist health service? 

Robina Shah 

Matthew, can I just say, I'm finding this conversation at this particular time, very meaningful, both in terms of intellect, emotional and psychological safety, particularly for those of us of colour from black and minority communities, particularly around the backdrop you just outlined there.

So, being asked to speak at this moment is, is really impactful on me personally. And, I'd just quickly like to say, to congratulate the nation's confederation and particularly Joan Saddler especially to leadership and her kind of commitment to ensuring that the voice of our people is represented equitably.

But again, landing impact. And I think the diversity charter is absolutely the right way to go and I've certainly been signed up to that. So, coming back to the question you just asked me. When I hear the theme ‘standing firm in power and pride’, particularly this year, it speaks so much to that Black History Month theme, but it speaks to that because of resilience, the leadership and the cultural heritage that we all hold and we are proud to have.

But it also challenges us to think about the world we live in, the world we live in right now, and the world that we are experiencing right now in this climate. Particularly in today's NHS, these things are not abstract, are they? You know, we know colleagues from minority black ethnic backgrounds are still underrepresented in senior leadership roles.

They still face racism in the workplace and outside of the workplace, and too often are carrying the heaviest burdens in times of crisis. And in this situation, also feeling alone and isolated. That is why for me, and I'm sure for everyone listening into this call, the theme matters so much, particularly in the landscape again, you painted earlier on. 

So standing firm is about refusing to be erased or sidelined, and power is about collective influence, agency and leadership, all rooted in service. Pride is about embracing identity, celebrating heritage, and walking forward without apology. These values are important, and they remind us both in reflection and going forward, that as an anti-racist NHS, this is not an option. It's something that we have to really buy into, deliver, and support the presence of. It is central to fairness, to our safety and the care that we provide. So when I reflect on themes such as this personally, I can go back to 1992 when I was appointed one of the youngest non-executive directors of colour in Greater Manchester.

Later I became the youngest chair of Alpine NHS Trust and then of a foundation trust. At many leadership meetings I remember I was often the only person of colour in the room. Sometimes people assumed I could not possibly be the chair. Or would ask why I was there or what I did. 

Those moments were painful. Why did I need to explain myself? Why did I need to explain who I am would be asked that question to all our colleagues. But against this, there were other colleagues too who did know me, who supported me, who recognised me for my integrity, my compassion, my care, and my commitment to service. 

They valued me for the job I was doing and they recognised when I was doing it wrong. And would tell me when I needed to learn. I listened very carefully. That experience has taught me that standing firm is about resilience. It is about dignity and integrity. And pride is not about personal status. It is about solidarity. It is about knowing that by holding your ground, you are opening doors and creating space for others and for today's NHS, .standing firm in power and pride means leaders who see power as service and pride as collective strength. Building a health service where colleagues are respected, not just as professionals, but as people who dedicate their lives to caring for others. 

Matthew Taylor 

Thanks, Robina. That's very, very powerful in terms of Black History Month, in the particular context that we're in, what do you think is the tone, which we should be striking between celebrating the progress that has been made over these, well, nearly for 30 years since Black History Month was launched, but also, the very real climate of fear and concern that's taking place at the moment. How do we get that balance right between celebration and a recognition of how people are feeling?

Robina Shah 

Matthew this is a really fundamental question, and if you think back about all the work the NHS Confederation has done, the Department of Health in the past, some individual trusts, and collectively together. What we're talking about is not a new concept or a new topic or a new subject. It's a daily, every year conversation, and yet in order to answer it properly, we have to reflect back and think about how we move forward to sustain some of the learning and sustain the fact that we have listen to those voices which have sought change for the, for the betterment of not just black and minority ethnic people, but for everyone who live within that diversity space.

So we, if we take it from that start that kind of entry point, this year's Black History Month does come at a very sobering time. We think back to the pandemic, many of our colleagues, often from black and minority ethnic background, made extraordinary sacrifices and some lost their lives. Today, those same staff and their families face harassment, intimidation, and rising racism and Islamophobia.

So for many, standing firm means standing firm against fear and hostility, but standing firm as a collective voice, not just a few people whose voice we hear every year, but still goes unheard. And leaders, as you said, cannot just celebrate. They must acknowledge the pain and act to protect staff you said that at the beginning.

Where is the safeguarding? Not just for Black History Month and for the months that may follow, but, but all the time. So celebration when we talk about it has to be spoken. You know, you can't, you can't celebrate without protection, you know, without protection, it's a hollow statement. Leaders must be visible, they must be vocal, courageous, calling out the racism, supporting our colleagues, supporting our staff, and modeling allyship in real and practical ways.

For me, silence is just complicity as for my own support system, I draw strength from my family who ground me from colleagues like, like Joan and others like Habib and, and people from my past. I'm going over 30 years now where I've gone through these different stages of leadership roles and all of them are mentors and our friends and they said in me from young people who remind me also why inclusion matters.

I think colleagues, patients, carers and volunteers across the NHS university and community life who walked alongside me in all of those different roles. They remind me that leadership is never, it's never solo endeavour. And if I may just say this, I'm also conscious of how few people of colour are visible in civic life.

I was the first South Asian woman from my community to become a high sheriff and later honoured with a damehood. And while I'm really proud and humbled to have this title, I know many others are equally deserving but remain unseen. So Black History Month against this backdrop and landscape, must shine light on all of those hidden contributions to.

Matthew Taylor 

Thank you Robina. Joan, we have to acknowledge, don't we, that that the sector feels like the hits just keep coming. At the moment, leaders are guiding their organisations through huge change and all the while we are seeing division and fear in the communities that the NHS serves and perhaps particularly in the most challenged and disadvantaged communities. 

Now we are really clear at the Confed that tackling inequality, tackling racism is not an add-on to the work of transformation improvement, that it's intrinsic to that. But I wonder, can you describe for our listeners how you draw that connection?

Joan Saddler

Yes, and thank you, Matthew.

I do want to just acknowledge colleagues and colleagues like Robina, those who are aspiring leaders, those from racialised communities who are still here, and that is something to celebrate, will draw the link between staff and the output that we want from staff, which is for better and higher quality care, so why wouldn't we link workforce inequality as well as health inequalities? But there is something about tackling inequality, and particularly for black and minority ethnic staff, black, Asian, and minority ethnic staff. We do want to recognise those staff who are still here still improving and still recognising that this is a job, this is a work they want to do.

So I want to just thank them that in this challenging time we can celebrate that we're standing tall. We're standing tall in our power and our pride. I want to expand on the concept of tackling inequalities 'cause too long we've separated them. We've skewed the rationale as to why we need a diverse workforce.

So we did a lot of work and are still working with colleagues in our Tackling Inequalities Alliance to make sure that the understanding of why we need to tackle inequality in the workforce and for patients is because the alignment means we have that stronger health and care service that we need to serve everybody.

Why do we drive down into the detail of why a diverse mitigates against thought diversity, increases our recruitment reach and retention delivers better outcomes and higher quality of care. As a private sector particularly found, we want to make sure that we drill down not into fables, but into the data that takes us to where we're tackling further problems through an equity approach.

So we must put the two together. Tackling inequality is an improvement approach and it works alongside to see us transforming the NHS we all want to see. 

Matthew Taylor 

So Joan, in this area of health inequalities, there was a time a few years ago, I guess, that sometimes people would say, well when we talk about equalities we talk about gender equality, we talk about race equality, but the one thing we don't talk about so much is kind of social class and often we see the highest sickness rates, worklessness rates in largely white working class communities - in my part of the world for example along the east coast - Now with Wes Streeting and the 10 Year Plan things have kind of gone the other way. He seems to be particularly wanting to talk about those most disadvantaged communities, how we're going to invest more, for example, in neighbourhood health in those places. Joan, how do we bring together these different aspects of inequality so it doesn't feel as though they're pulling against each other?

Joan Saddler

Yeah, and I agree they do seem to pull against each other when actually there's a fashion. I did an article, it's probably about seven or eight years ago now, where we talk about inequality is not a fashion statement. It's not race this year and women's health next year, and LGBTQ plus health or disabled people.

We talk about everyone as a backdrop to why this work matters. Tackling inequality. That's the narrative we start with, indeed the narrative that enabled us to have laws tackling inequality, going back to the late sixties when it was about housing. When it was about tenants’ rights, when we then went into making sure there was equality, an Equality Act for women, an Equality Act for race.

So we stopped talking about why this issue matters to everyone. That's the first thing we need to start getting right. Then we actually drill down back to housing rights. It was about social class. It was about those at the bottom of the pile, and it was about everyone. So as we get to the Equality Act, that then protects certain groups of people, we've almost moved away from the underpinning, which says, tackling equality is about everyone. And we're drilling down to where the data is taking us even further, where class matters, where discrimination matters for certain groups of people who have double or triple impacts of inequality.

So I think that's quite important to say. We don't just drill down to where the evidence takes us. We make sure that the narrative speaks to the people who pay for us to be here in these roles, who pay for this service, where we say, even if you look at the protected characteristics, everyone has four or five of those right at the start.

We never talk about that. We all have an age. We all have gender, sex, we all have ethnicity. We all have belief, and that means no belief or some kind of belief. So this act is about all of us. We tend to go, and the woke narrative tends to go, to the worst, the excesses that seem to be construed in a way that is very negative. 

Actually, we're talking about people with disabilities, people with learning disabilities, who we can track, the evidence tells us, around the bottom, bottom of the social equity pile. We can track people like carers again who don't have that economic value and so paid very little and are holding up the health and care service at the moment.

Again, there is a lot of inequity there at the bottom of the pile, and we can look at where we can see socioeconomic deprivation. So let's start talking about class. That's fine. Let's start talking about the worst excesses of discrimination, but remember carers are in every social strata and so are people suffering racism.

It's not always about discrimination. So let's make our narrative very clear, we’re talking about everyone, and then we're drilling down to where the inequalities are even worse. 

Matthew Taylor 

Robina, I'm just interested in your kinda response to what Joan said. 

Robina Shah

I think, I think Joan is correct in what she's saying.

I believe sometimes, we mix up what we mean by health and healthcare and what we mean by the wider determinants of health and then what we mean by who experiences the worst type of health in terms of access. So what Joan is saying is we need an integrated narrative. So it's neither you nor me it is everyone. And within that everyone, our baseline should be how we provide our health service, and we co-design it with the individuals that Joan just described, how then do we look at tackling those inequalities and addressing equity in health? We can't do that because the data tells us that there are people from specific backgrounds and circumstances, not just socioeconomic, but in terms of health status, who suffer for more, but those access is poor and therefore their longevity, their lifespan is reduced.

So when we have the data that tells us the story, why are we not reporting that story in its correct manner? So there's something to be said here about using a narrative that is authentic, evidence-based, because there is an evidence based for all the things that Joan just said and actually is responsive to a healthcare system that currently, as described in the left-shift, needs to think about what are we doing supporting our children and young people to lead and have healthier lives? To look at those social inequalities, which they won't experience yet because they won't badge as that because they won't know. But we know, how do we support them in their, in their community? And you know, baselines are very interesting, aren't they? If the baseline is equitable care and delivering health equity you can't do that without looking at all the sub factors which impact on people from the communities and from individual experiences, including families who are not diagnosed, families who are supporting people who are diagnosed, or carers, adults and young carers, unless we are frank about what we need to do and why we need to do it and what we are not doing, and choosing not to do it because the narrative is telling us a different story.

So there's something in here, Matthew, about prioritisation. Since it's Black History Month, why are we not looking at the impact within those communities who we know for years, we go back to the inverse care law, Carol Black's paper back in the eighties, she will, and it's very clear in that report that people from racialised minority black communities, continued to experience care.

The CORE20+5, you look at cardiovascular disease, mental health, respiratory disease, maternity, et cetera, et cetera, or paediatric health. You will see that the data and the trends that support that data tell you look into your communities and address those in need based on the evidence that's just been described.

And if you ignore that, because the narrative allows you to not select that option, then we will never deliver equity in healthcare. There will always be those who are underserved and always be those whe will not achieve the care that they are entitled to. 

Matthew Taylor 

Joan, we will have colleagues from black and minority ethnic backgrounds listening to this, and I'm wondering what their pathway into leadership might look like and the particular challenges they'll face on the way.

How would you advise someone looking to go on that leadership journey and tell us what support is available for putative BME leaders in our service? 

Joan Saddler

Yeah, I think, um, this is quite important because, people like me, and we experience racism inside and outside of work, you know, we choose what we're going to tackle.

There's a way of life that you develop. Work is part of your life. And so what we try and do is look at the evidence of what we know the data out there saying, you know, it's more difficult to get into leadership roles in the NHS, you will be impacted by racism where there is a lack of empathy. When we look at other equalities characteristics there is not that lack of empathy.

People think it's our fault, really. Why we're in that racist kind of cycle, and I would just encourage people to think about this notion of power and pride. Like anyone who is successful, we don't look outside of ourselves for someone to give us pride, we have to have that pride in ourselves professionally, in a workforce context.

We have to understand what our power is, and particularly for leaders, around racialised communities, the successful organising that has worked in the past evidenced in the UK. Professor David Williams a Harvard Professor who did a lot of work in the NHS talks about there is an organising principle where we work together.

It's the campaigning principle across many diversities groups. But for BME leaders in particular where there aren't many of us, working together, being unified is key. Understanding where we have come from and how we've got here is key. So, you hear sometimes very negative impacts that talk about people have gone into the NHS and they've they've drawn up the ladder and nobody's coming after them. That's not true. Actually, the majority of people are fighting in a leadership role for the people they serve, and also to bring others alongside them. Don't get discouraged by that. Keep that ladder down. Keep bringing people through that leadership pipeline and keep working to your best.

You may have to navigate the leadership ladder by going around and up rather than straight up as some may be able to do. But again, believe and work to the performance that you know you can perform better at. Listen to good advice. Listen to where you need to improve. All of us do. As good leaders, we need to have that emotional intelligence that takes us further. So we can either say racism is real and we can't get anywhere, and I'm getting out. Racism is across the world, globally we're seeing this impact, so let's be very clear about how we stand firm in our own power, working with allies, working with supporters, and have that pride in what we're delivering for people.

When you bring people with you, there's nothing like it. You must work through communities as well as with other colleagues. So that's what I'm encouraging people to do today. 

Matthew Taylor

Thanks Joan. Well, as we draw to a close and on a slightly different note, I want to come back to Black History Month as a celebration of progress.

What are your points, Robina, Joan, of pride this month as you look at the NHS’s journey to towards anti-racism, who are the individuals in your view on whose shoulders we stand currently and also how will you be celebrating.

Joan, you first. 

Joan Saddler

Well, the people professionally of pride, I'll start with that, are people who have fought the system.

Dame Elizabeth Anionwu stands out to me, as do other colleagues who have been in the NHS for a long time. Professor Dame Anionwu developed the sickle cell service single-handed handedly. Working through teams when there was no sickle cell service. She understood the nuances of leadership and what it would take to work through and with communities and with professional colleagues to really counteract the data, the negative data of care, and to bring through the changes that we see now today in sickle cell service.

Still working with people at the RHO to make things better. Her guiding factor was, ‘I am a person who actually can change things. I will bring all my skills’. So people like her and the white colleagues who have helped, chief executives who have kind of said, ‘I think you should be in this position’. And I kind of said, well, ‘why?’

And they support me through and I learned from them so we need those supporters. But lastly, I would say our parents, my parents, carers, people who guided us through those parents who came. My parents certainly worked in the NHS and you know, we had the black link hands things, ‘please don't put them on me I want somebody else to serve me.’ Isn't that interesting in terms of what's going on today? And even when we look at the Gaza conflict and what is going on in our hospitals, who is treating who we need to celebrate the fact that those people have gone before opened up the way for us to be here. We will tackle those challenges. Again, making sure that we serve everyone. So for me, it's very important to recognise those people. 

Matthew Taylor 

Thank you, Joan. Robina?

Robina Shah

Yeah, it's, you know, I started this conversation saying, this is a very emotional time for me and for other people who are reflecting back on what has been their purpose in life and how they supported others firstly. And secondly, you know, what is it that we need to do more of?, why are we facing the same challenges, the same things keep coming up, or why are people giving greater voice to, to ourselves? And this month for, for Black History Month, I eel that I do take pride in the resilience that I have seen that has responded to some of those challenges.

I absolutely applaud the contributions of our NHS staff from racialised communities. And when I think about the legacy of the Windrush generation, they were invited to build the NHS that we have today. And they did so with the extraordinary dedication, even while facing racism in housing, work cases, and then daily life.

Some of those people already, we're still seeing these things. They were evident and spoken to, spoken about following the unite the kingdom march that took place a couple of weeks ago. That dedication. And even though they're facing racism as we are today, I mean, we, we need to call it out because that is what it is that they were needed in this country as we are needed, but we still don't feel welcome.

Why is it that we have to reflect on that point? Why do we not still feel welcome? Are leaders in different roles, and like Joan said, Dame Elizabeth was one of my icons as well and certainly many of the colleagues have worked in the NHS and also within academia, people who did see you for your skills, for what you were bringing, for the contribution you were making from an academic perspective, from a professional perspective, from a personal values-based perspective and wanted you on their team because they felt you could make a difference.

So we might say these things, but you look for the evidence in terms of who is leading today and how we are sustaining and supporting our leaders. Then we have to ask ourselves, why? Why are we not till not doing enough even because the narrative has been there for, for history. History speaks to that point.

I think for me also, we have to understand that if we want to sustain and enrich our health service. Even in the face of hostility, as we've seen today, we've got to take pride in the allies and the networks and the champions that are all around us, who ask us to be, to be fair, to be kind, who ask us to use the data equitably, to use the research and the advocacy, and use that background to hold us all to account for the decisions that we make, for the future that we want to bring for a better healthcare experience and healthcare system for our colleagues, for the patients, for the carers, for the communities that we serve. So I make no apology when I say, you know, we still stand on the shoulders of the Windrush generation and we must never forget that. And I also want to say, when we talk about celebration, celebration is not an isolated event.

There are so many people from all communities in an inclusive manner, from more backgrounds and circumstances who will be celebrating Black History Month because they believe in NHS and they believe in the in the community and the diversity of that community. And they believe in holistic leadership, holistic care, holistic outcomes, which impact and celebrate that diversity and mentoring and reflecting on how others particularly who have helped shaped who we are.

And for me, it has been my parents. They gave me the compassion, they gave me the, the lens of fairness and the need to act with courage when others remain silent. So let's not forget and let's hold onto what is good about the people we work with from all backgrounds and, and, and all circumstances as I've said already.

And let's not just think about the pride element that's important, but think about the celebration. We can only change if we change together. 

Matthew Taylor 

Well, thank you so much to Robina and Joan, for sharing your thoughts with us today. We have our own event celebrating Black History Month in a couple of weeks’ time with Baroness Warsi our own chair, Lord Victor Adebowale.

It's been so popular, this event that I'm afraid it's sold out, but I do wish all our members well with their own Black History events this month. So do get along to something in your area if you can. And if you have an exciting or innovative programme of work that you are involved in, we'd love to hear about it.

Please tell us. You might end up on Health on the Line. Just contact Health Comms plus@nhsconfed.org. Thanks for listening. Goodbye. 

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